It’s difficult to say there is government in power –Onaiyekan

ent in power –Onaiyekan

How is the Christian faith in China?
That is a million dollar ques­tion. As we know, for 50 years, China was kept away from reli­gion. But recently, the Chinese government did agree that you can be a member of the ruling Communist Party, an active politician in China, as well as a believer. The result now is that there are a good number of Chinese high-level government officials who are also members of the Church. The problem however is that the churches are not well organized. The Catholic Church is well orga­nized into dioceses, but there are many protestant churches that are just individuals start­ing a church, the kind of thing that we are used to. And all be­cause people have read the Bi­ble, or have heard, met a Chris­tian and they want to become Christians. And many, many young Chinese who have been raised up without religion, are thirsty for something like reli­gion.
How was Nigeria before you left?
It is like a period of waiting and hop­ing and praying. You know, after the election, there was a lot of expectations that there would be a change because we all wanted a change. I am not so sure, however, whether we all knew exactly what kind of change we wanted or whether we all prepared to pay the price for the change that was needed. The bottom line is this: the country cannot change unless we, as Nigerians, agree to change. And that is where the problem is. Many Nigerians want to continue as they were doing before and they want everybody else to change, but not themselves.
That is the problem which our presi­dent has. He has with him, a whole lot of people with whom he doesn’t share the same ideas. And this is partly re­sponsible for the slow pace of what he is doing. He has made two major points his priorities: insecurity in the north­east and corruption. As for insecurity in the northeast, I can say that the Armed Forces has managed to put its acts to­gether, especially, with the cooperation of neighbouring countries – Cameroun, Chad, Niger. We have practically disor­ganized the military outfit of Boko Ha­ram. But that doesn’t mean that Boko Haram has finished because armed people, people who have been in the Boko Haram, still, are carrying a lot of arms and ammunition, they are still causing a lot of problems, they are at­tacking isolated villages, they are setting road blocks in isolated roads so that the people who ran away from home over a year ago, are still not able to return home. They will tell you it is still not safe to get back home. When will it all end, I don’t know.
Specifically, how do you see the government in power?
It is difficult to say we have one be­cause the government in power has not really taken any action yet for us on which to judge them. They have told us to be patient. Buhari, especially, says we should be patient and let him take his time. Obviously, he has only four years to do whatever he wants to do. He can­not spend the whole of one year prepar­ing.
So, those who call him Baba go slow are right?
He agrees that he is going slowly. The only thing he is saying is that it is the right thing for him to do, that there was no need to rush, that it is better to go slowly and go well than to rush and make big mistakes. That is his own way of looking at the thing. There are certain things that you should go slowly on, but there are other things that cannot wait.
Apart from being slow, it seems you are not satisfied with the way he is going. Is it true?
It is not easy to say I am not satisfied with the way he is going because we have not seen any way he is going. All I can say is that there is a lot of work to do, we cannot wait indefinitely.
War against corruption seems to be his major preoccupation. Is he getting it right at all?
Anybody who is expecting that with Buhari as president, all corrupt prac­tices will end, must be somebody who doesn’t really know what kind of cor­ruption we have in Nigeria. Corruption in Nigeria is not basically a question of individuals who are greedy or dishon­est because by the time you meet indi­vidual Nigerians, we are all struggling. Everybody knows one another and you don’t really want to point finger at any particular person. Rather, it is a whole system that is corrupt, which needs to be changed – the system of governance, the way business is done in the govern­ment offices. All this have to change if corruption is to be tackled.
It means also that those who claim, or those who have the job to tackle corruption, must themselves do it in a non-corrupt fashion. This is where it is necessary that the rule of law must be followed. You cannot just pounce on somebody because you think you don’t like him or because people are talking about him. This is the problem that Bu­hari has.
His choice of ministers: is it a radi­cal departure from what we have been experiencing?
Nothing radically! In fact, that is what most Nigerians are saying: why did he wait so long if this is what he was go­ing to come out with? There are really no new people with any radical idea that you would find there. On the other hand, there are too many people who are very familiar. Apparently, he gave in eventually to the political pressures. It is true, of course, that a president in a democratic presidential system like our own, would have to choose his minis­ters among those who are his political associates. But then, when you start do­ing that in Nigeria, they brand them to return to the same old politicians that we have always heard about.
Your Eminence, from the way you are speaking, it is like you are not seeing any difference between the All Progressives Congress (APC) and the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP). Any difference?
There is a difference all right; there is a difference. There is a difference be­tween PDP and APC. The difference is simply this: PDP was a very well-estab­lished organization, they have been rul­ing us for a long time, they were rather sure about what they were doing and they were just doing business as usual. For them, the question of change is not really the matter. They had also become used to the corrupt system of govern­ment so that for them, corruption was not a problem.
With APC, at least, what they say, they want a change. And they are talking that there should be an end to corruption. They now know that this is a war that all of us must be part of. We didn’t hear much of that under PDP.
In all this, are you convinced that Buhari can take us out of the woods?
He is in the woods now, let’s see how he will get out of it. That is the only time when we can answer the question (laughs).
Jonathan! What would you say went wrong with his administration that Nigerians voted him out of pow­er?
Listen, in a democracy, no govern­ment ever does it very well to the very end without problem. Every govern­ment tries their best, they have success here and they have failure there. And in­variably, in a democracy, there is always this change of government. People get tired of one government and they want a change. And I think that is basically what has happened with us in Nigeria. It is this that we can begin to ask: what are those things which Jonathan could have done differently which he did not do differently?
Here, for example, even the area of security, Boko Haram, it is now clear that for many, many weeks, maybe even months, whoever was advising our pres­ident, Jonathan, didn’t give him correct advice. And he didn’t know it was so se­rious and by the time he woke up to it, it was too late. And then, as a lecturer of zoology, he didn’t know too much, how to handle military matters. So, that is one area.
In the area of corruption, Jonathan, whatever he may have done, it would be difficult to justify the fact that so many blatant cases of corruption came out which he did not seem to have the guts to address. There were too many sacred cows. Too many sacred cows, too many untouchables.
But, were you sad that a Christian president lost out in a power game?
In Nigeria, I don’t believe in a Chris­tian president or a Moslem president. In Nigeria, we want a good president whether he is Christian or Moslem. Therefore, I don’t look at this whole thing in terms of Christian and Moslem. The only thing I would say, as a Cardinal, Catholic Archbishop of Abuja, I would want that if any of my members came into the corridors of power, he should rule in such a way that I can be proud of him, namely: rule according to Christian principles which means being fair, being honest, being hardworking and insist on honesty all down the line.
You participated in the General Abdulsalami Abubakar-led National Peace Committee on the 2015 Gen­eral Elections. Why did you get your­self involved with that committee?
I participated in that committee be­cause I was invited to it and I went for it. And I went to it because I believe very firmly that if everybody keeps quiet, things will go bad. And at that time, there were very much rumours that things were going to get very bad. So, when I heard that there was a group who was trying to do something about it, I gladly joined. In fact, I consider it an honour that I was invited to join.
As for whether we were responsible for the successful and peaceful election, that one I think, will be left for history to adequately judge.
The first meeting your committee had with President Buhari in the Presidential Villa after he was sworn into office, became so controversial that people felt that your committee was shielding Jonathan from probe. What actually happened?
What happened later was a matter of the press, your people. And what the press was saying all over the place, has nothing to do with what we were doing. Don’t forget that our committee is not an official committee. It was not ap­pointed by government. We had no par­ticular powers, so I don’t know why the press was making so much noise about us. And not that we had any common political views. We all came from differ­ent places. The only good thing we had in common was, we believe, all of us wanted a peaceful Nigeria and a united Nigeria.
Having said that, anybody who want­ed to be sincere, would realize that soon after the election, there was a big danger of the polarization of Nigeria be­tween those who were for Jonathan and who have lost out, and those who are for Buhari and are now rejoicing that they have won.
This kind of polarization we believe, was not going to be in the interest of Nigeria. We believe that our problems were very great and required all hands to be on deck. We thought the first thing is that the president is now president, he is no longer a candidate in an elec­tion. So, the language of the APC could be whatever it is, but the language of Mr. President must be that of the Presi­dent of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Therefore, we expected him to look at things from that point of view.
Looking at the mood of the nation, what advice can you quickly offer the president?
The mood of the nation is a bit con­fused, I think. The mood of the nation is a bit confused also because not much has happened. My advice to Buhari: move as fast as you can, have a clear mind about certain things, pick those with whom you want to work and tell them your mind so that if they cannot follow you, they can ease themselves out. And I am sure that is going to hap­pen. How it will happen, I don’t really know yet.
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